Greenwood Ironman???

Anyone out there?

There was a lot of smack talked earlier by people about going there and doing this or that. I don't see those folks registered. Anyone still going?
Abbeville guys?
Chesterfield guys?
Bamberg guys?

Are you guys taking the week off on what was the biggest tournament in the state?

Hey Lex - guess I'm not the only one that stays up until odd hours of the morning...

Saw the low numbers on the CW site (less than 50???) - kind of disappointing. I'm not involved with the tourney this year, but is this indicitive of this year's FS/GR season as a whole? Doesn't seem like many people are coming out - since a number of tournaments have been cancelled.

Do you think is mostly due to the economy or is it something else - like poor promotion/organization?

The economy could be part of it. If this event was $15-20 to wrestle both freestyle/greco than I know I would have had another 6 kids making 12 from my club. This particular event for us, is $45 a kid because we wrestle in the USA events in SC, FL, and NC. They all bought NUWAY cards for this one events~that sucks.

Two years ago there must have been 16+ kids in a lot of brackets. It isn't looking like that is going to be the case this year. That is too bad. It was a great event.

I don't think Rob Wiggs' Boiling Springs event is the issue as a lot of the kids who attend the USA events will be at the Ironman.
Has NUWAY had any freestyle/greco events yet this year? I wonder if they did and they went poorly, maybe some kids/parents got turned off.
A lot of times kids say they will wrestle freestyle/greco, then then miss the first few weeks due to anything from girlfriends, vacations, working, cars, other sports, you name it. Then they either feel like they are far behind and don't want to jump in there, or they just don't want to leave their comfort zone (folkstyle).

Wrestling is a tough sport. The high school season is a real grind and some kids get burned out. I think the focus of extreme weight cutting has a lot to do with that. Before the hydration tests and so many people misunderstanding that the minimum weight is not the "optimal" weight, our spring numbers were much better.
Some (a lot) of kids talk tough, but don't feel comfortable without their whole team behind them. Some kids as evidenced by the high school season are afraid to wrestle at or near their walk around weight. Notice the schools notorious for cutting a ton of weight are absent this spring........if they can't win , they don't want to try types.
Usually in the spring (other than the large Regional and National events) kids are grouped together weight-wise to optimize matches.

I think too that a lot of coaches either don't know/understand freestyle/greco or have a hard time keeping up with all of the rule changes. I know several coaches that don't get it, won't promote it.

As for promotion of the Ironman........I don't think that is it. I found info very easily. There were a lot of online postings about it. I don't know. People are fickle I guess.

Kinda thinking along the same lines Lex. Wonder if the High School wrestling season getting longer may affect the spring numbers? Kids are wrestling what 70 + matches a year? That is pretty grueling. Also, I wonder....as in wrestling....more time and effort is required for other sports as well. So in the case of smaller schools where sports share athletes.....if the grind of Baseball, Football, Basketball are affecting spring and summer wrestling???? Just a thought? I would think Tanneyhill down at Chesterfield has Hannah in the weight room and in summer passing leagues(among other stuff)?

This may be mirrored in the youth ranks. Elementary and MS kids are wrestling 100 to 150 matches during the folkstyle season. So kids are wornout and probably are the parents pocket books. lol

I can't speak for everyone but in my particular case .....or my son's case. It wasn't anything to do with weight cutting during the year. Kinda the exact opposite. He was certified at 35 walked around 45 - 48 and wrestled all season at 52 and 60(untill region). Not a complaint....glad to do it for the team! But, he was plain and simply over powered as a 14 yo. Especially wrestling 30 + matches in GA, TN, and NC. So our intent was to get him stronger in the off season. So even tho he loves FS/GR he is in the weight room trying to get bigger and stronger. So....not an issue of cutting in this particular case.

I hate to see the numbers at the Iron man. My son actually won it a couple times and we loved the wrestling. Very well run tournament by great people.......which by the way just because it is Nuway....it is still the same tournament. Just different santioning body. Think of it this way. Insurance on a car. Just because a Mustang is covered Geico.....you cant really say you never road in Geico car. If you rode in a Mustang....you rode in a Mustang no matter if is covered by Geico or All State. So the tournament being sanctioned by AAU or NUWAY doesnt really make a difference. Now SCUSA actually comes in and runs the tournaments.....so that doesn't apply in this synopsis. SCUSA actually gives you insurance, but drives your Mustang for you......for the good or bad

I wasn't necessesarily referring to promotion of the IM event, but thinking about the way FS/GR season itself is handled. TP stays tied up with Folkstyle National events (Ohio TOC, NUWAY Nats, etc...) through April and only a few FS/GR tourneys are offered. Doesn't leave a lot of time to get ready for SE Regionals in May or seem like there is and enthusiastic push for FS/GR. It's understandable that after 6 months of grinding through the state, regional, and Nat folkstyle tourneys that the leadership in TP needs a much deserved break.

SCUSA doesn't have any results, photos, or a lot of details to get people too excited about what goes on in FS/GR. Hear comments that people are getting good matches, but the general rep for SCUSA tourneys has been that about 50-75 kids show up and it takes all day just to get in a few matches due to poor bracketing and running of mats. It also doesn't help that the bulk of the money made from running a USA tourny goes to USA and not the local club. Most are reluctant to host something where they think they will make less than $1K. Easier to have a raffle or car wash to raise a similar or greater amount of money.

Feels like if the guys at SCUSA would just team up with TP it would be more smoothly for everybody and eliminate the question of which event to go to, like GWD vs Boiling Springs. TP's organization seems to provide a much better structure for promoting events while SCUSA appears to have the expertise and knowledge of FS/GR for tourneys in the Spring and Summer. A clearer transistion from Folk would allow the TP leadership to take a breather and bring in a fresh crew from SCUSA with fire in their belly.

Also - seems like nobody takes advantage of trying to do a touney in the summer. GWD has developed a sucessful Under the Lights tourney in July, but outside of camps - don't see much else in the summer.

"
Feels like if the guys at SCUSA would just team up with TP it would be more smoothly for everybody and eliminate the question of which event to go to, like GWD vs Boiling Springs. TP's organization seems to provide a much better structure for promoting events while SCUSA appears to have the expertise and knowledge of FS/GR for tourneys in the Spring and Summer. A clearer transistion from Folk would allow the TP leadership to take a breather and bring in a fresh crew from SCUSA with fire in their belly.
"


Very well said GWDdad. Makes too much sense doesn't it? Seems like a simple, natural and obvious solution! Sure wish SCUSA would come to their senses. We can always hope can't we?

Mk,
Could USA work within Team Palmetto and the NUWAY system to where they handled the Freestyle/greco and Nuway the folkstyle? I don't all how all of the logistics would need to be (I just complain about stuff that aggravates me instead).
I know Cumbee and Donlick have been looking hard at it and want to make it work cohesively. In my opinion, and probably most of the Freestyle/greco folks, USA needs to stick with the olympic styles. That is what they know and how they can be beneficial. Team Palmetto has done a good job with folkstyle obviously.

How can they work together so that the freestyle/greco stuff doesn't get washed away? You know if the two organizations compete as they have been since a certain somebody screwed over people at Team Palmetto over a joint run tournament.

In order to go to USA Regional and national events, kids need a USA card. In order to do the in-state NUWAY events, they need a NUWAY card. We all want more money to stay in state and support our kids going to national events and hey, how about helping the kids wanting to wrestle in college.

I know Cumbee and Donlick want to have more money for the kids in state. To pay for training camps, travel, gear, etc. especially when Fargo costs so much.
I know last year Cumbee took what was left in the SCUSA account and split it up for the kids that went to Fargo. It wasn't much, but the thoguht process is there now.

Absolutely USA could work under Team Palmetto umbrella! We could appoint those guys to run the FreeStyle portion of the season. Even Mark Scott told them the best thing they could do was to accept the Olive Branch and team up. BUT THEY NEVER HAVE. Even with encoragement from their national office..

The principal of how Team Palmetto is set up or would be set up is this( I hope the formatting works on this post).

TEAM PALMETTO, Inc
SCUSA SCAAU NUWAY/SCWAY NHSCA


Team Palmetto board would be made up of reps from the organizations. Team Palmetto IS NOT tied to one organization. The ULTIMATE goal will be what is best for SC.

Would work something like this Bill Patterson would schedule the folkstyle season....then Cumbee would come in set up FS/GR season. Money could be shared. The FS/GR guys would come in the Folstyle season to promote FS/GR. TP travel teams would go to USA duals. Money help pay for kids to go Fargo. etc.

Now I am not saying this would be a world of bliss. There would be hurdles to conquer. Like USA guys may want more of the financial pie???? Just using this as an example....not trying to start anything here. But their idea would have to be founded. I mean if we raised $30, 000 dollars during the Folstyle season then only ??? 30 kids participated in the Spring why should they be entitled to ??? 50% money. But even that could be compromised. We could say..... money generated in freestyle season stays there then supplemented by the folkstyle...... just talking out loud here.

I know it can be done!

Under Team Palmetto, Inc you can sanction your tournament under whomever fits the case best. Sooooooo what SCUSA may have to compromise on is more Freestyle tournaments ran under Nuway.....since there is approximately 3,000 kids with NUWAY cards.... then the hardcore kids that go to USA nationals gets their USA cards later. But to get the mass numbers to carry over to the spring we may need them to be NUWAY. PLUS!!!! the more NUWAY cards we sell the more money we have in state to fund refs, coaches, and most importantly THE KIDS!!!!!

Hurdles, but it just makes too much sense!!!!!

What you think LEX?

The way everyone should look at it is...... We are NOT talking about NUWAY kids, USA kids, AAU kids. These are S O U T H C A R O L I N A kids. We just use a insurance card to go to whatever tournament is necessary to get us better.



The national office shouldnt use us. We should use the national office for us to get better!

Ok.
now it is starting to make sense. I has never been explained that way.
Folkstyle is always going to be the bread and butter of most kids~Confort level, history, etc. I think based on what you are saying though, that SCUSA can be a part of the umbrella so to speak. Folkstyle money should go towards the folkstyle stuff, but freestyle/greco could go toward the Fargo/Junior Duals/FILA's stuff. How would the parent USA organization still fit in with Freestyle/greco state's and with people from other states coming to our tournaments?

Obviously our guys need their USA cards for SE Regionals and other out of state events. That shouldn't be an issue really.

Bad weekend for the Ironman.....ALL the state champs from South Carolina will be at the High School Sports Report Banquet in Columbia.

Champ - there's never been a great weekend to host this thing. Always something going on in the state or nationally that conflicts. My son was actually out of town yesterday for a school function and I know there was a baseball tournament going on across town at the same time.

So - any word on the final turnout and results? Official registration on-line looked to be under 50, but how many more showed up after the fact? Hellman usually does a good job making sure everybody gets mat time under round robin brackets.

I don't know they turnout, but we took four kids for freestyle/greco.

Our kids all got plenty of matches:
One got eight
One had ten
One had fourteen I was told.

Plenty of matches. It was good for our kids to see some different kids than we normally see. We inteded to bring a lot more kids, injuries and bug going around took out about six of the kids we would have brought.

We had a good time. Hellman and crew are always gracious, accommodating hosts.

i dont know what mark scott told mike but when my wife and i were at colorado springs in 2005 at the state leaders summit we were told by rich bender, who hasnt been arrested , that under no circumstances was scusa to do a shared affiliation with anybody for any reason. we explained that if we try to compete with aau or team palmetto we would come out on the losing end. they said nc was doing fine. my reply to them was good for them. in sc its different. i still think we need to fix things in this state. egos have got in the way since the day i got involved as a coach. i have seen grown men that i respect lie their ass off. everytime sombody gets backed into a corner or try to convince somebodyelse into their way thinking,ITS ALL ABOUT THE KIDS, is the go-to phrase, when you know they are lying through their teeth. lex , me and you have coached together for alot of years, but there is alot more to this story than you know . scusa has done some very shady stuff years back. most of it me ,ron and steve have told you about. it seems every week i find out something new. you heard me tell ron we still have some weeding out to do this weekend at greenwood, but we have tried to mend fences since then and got blown off. people will tell you that is not true and please dont believe me, ask ron, jerry , steve or anybody else that has been around this mess for any length of time. alot of people like to make scusa to be the bad guys but you know at least since you started helping me with pit bull that that's not the case. they still want to fix things and so do i , but i am the kind of person if somebody turns their nose up at me ,that's it, i am done with them. so lets take one more shot . if it don't work, then it don't work.

I hear you loud and clear brother.
I know you, Ron, and Steve are looking hard at making things better. Proof was this weekend. Ron at Greenwood helping with the ref's....

You know who I have issues with.....

Oh, and I am wicked with a weed-whacker.

jme....... I have sat down with many representing SCUSA/USA/AAU.....many many times. Most of the time on my own personal dime. Are you referring to me as turning my nose up? I am one of the most approchable guys you want to meet.

Mark Scott was pleading with SCUSA and USA to change their stance. He saw the change coming. The potential shift. Not necesarily that it shared. More working together. I know USA and AAU don't want to a shared. They want to call the shots in our state. I probably wouldnt tell states to share either if my 6 figure salary was backed by not sharing.....or loss of card sales. But look at the writing on the wall. They better do something. With more money staying in state AAU and USA are gonna have troubles. And they know it. AAU/USA are losing PA, MI, OH, NY.... and if they havent already their gonna lose their cash cow California. If/When that happens USA wrestling will be changing their minds about plenty.

lol oh and I have been saying I will try it one more time(working with SCUSA) for 7 or 8 times. Not gonna stop now.

no not you , but it has happend afew times that i know of. the last time was just recent. steve cumbee was going to meet with somebody at jerry wiggers office and they did not show again. i cant remember who it was. lex , i know you and steve talked about it. did he tell you who it was? i remember we were all going to meet one year at souteast but once again for some BS reason it did not happen. ihave been on the board in one position or another for the past 6 years and there is still a bunch of stuff i dont agree with, but we have some good people in place. some places we still have some work to do. hopefuly we can start fixing stuff soon or i am just going to stick to coaching. my guys are going to wrestle no matter what. weather in this state or somewhere else. we have proven that we dont mind traveling.

By coincidence I was in Jerry's office the day you are speaking of....taking care of some personal issues.......let me assure you.....it wasn't because anyone turned anyone's nose up at anyone. Jerry, Steve, and Bill Patterson was going to meet. From what Jerry told me. It was not because Bill...."just didn't show". The few other times you mentioned I am not aware of. Showing Bill was gonna drive all the way from Belton to North Charleston shows he is willing to work together.

Plus coach, look at it like this. From your own statement your a "if someone turned their nose up at you once, thats it" then the two organizations will never talk. I could give you a whole laundry list of things SCUSA have done including having "how we are gonna smash SCAAU" and personal and vindictive attacks against me. I must be the most the most stupid person on the earth, most stubborn, or most tolerate????? dunno? At least it shows there is no ego on my part...or Team Palmetto getting in the way. Just wanting to do whats best for the state.

Mk,
I don't believe a "meeting" ended up happening. I think there were some travel issues for the Mr. Patterson (who I don't know). I may be wrong, like you said, that was a distance to drive for a meeting. But they did speak on the phone. Steve was/is all for working together as was evidenced by his wanting to NOT hold atournament this past weekend. Steve also wanted to send the ref's there to help out. One ref in particular did not want to and came up with every legality possible why he or they could not go. That same person scheduled the Boiling Springs tournament last Sunday. That same person refuses to give FIVES!

Look, Pitbull Club is a freestyle/greco club. We went to the Ironman (a NUWAY event). Unfortunately we have the bulk of our club either sick, injured, or other wise not be able to attend. Ron Donlick went and helped ref there as well. We had a good time.
SCUSA's issue right now is they seriously need more qualified ref's. There are four ref's that have some sort of office in SCUSA. They have five that I am aware of and 2-3 of them don't travel. They need more blood in there. That is part of the roadblock to a mass overhaul.

Some issues need to be worked out. Some people are not going to be happy, but it is not about ref's, parents, or coaches grudges. Hopefully cool heads can make this work.

Yeah I wasnt sure why exactly why it didnt happen???? Just know I happened to be in Jerry's office the day it was suppose to happen. Jerry made no indication that Bill nor Steve were turning their nose up at either. Jerry had some very positive things to say about Steve to make me hopefull! Im keeping my fingers crossed. I am looking forward to meeting Steve as well.

Here is the thing. I think you nailed it! Some people are not going to be happy. But you know it is not wether they are happy or not. It is a matter of what is best for our state and our kids. And some people could be....SCUSA...USA...AAU....Me....you...etc. I have made many decisions in my years of leadership that have not made me happy, have not made my national organization happy, not made my friends happy. But that is things leaders do.

well said ,and i know a leadership roll is a tuff one . i was vice chair under martin but the sad thing was that martin was not running anything ,his wife was, and the poor guy had to pay the price for it. all i had was a title because if christine did not agree with it ,it did not happen. steve is the best thing to happen to scusa in 10 years. mike i swear,5 seconds into a conversation with him and you will agree. he takes the high road on most things despite anybodys personal feelings. if he does not agree with something he will tell you but take the time to explain why. he listens real well and is always open to suggestions. he donated money to get us out of debt. now whatleader in the past would have done that.NOBODY,thats who. elections are this year and the organization would crazy not to vote him back in. with your past leadership lex has some great ideas , i have a few ,ron has a million good ones and steves leadership ,and the input of leaders of other organizations. we should a power house to be reckend with. LETS MAKE IT HAPPEN. thats a good motto, we should get shits made

i meant shirts

Well Shirt...surprised that one didn't get filtered!