Team Palmetto Board Meeting......Fargo Incentive, more tournaments

Team Palmetto Board(Russ Howard, Ed Coles, Mike Sanders) met this past Saturday to discuss Past and future business. In attendance was President Bill Patterson and Vice President John Mitchell.

I took two notable events from the meeting.

This coming year looks as the first year we will look at two tournaments on the same weekend. Looks as tho our numbers may support this and also to help increase tournament participation....epecially in the lower state. Of course this decision was largely due to the economy. The multiple tournament dates will be during the peak tournament season.....Jan...possibly Feb.

Also, in an effort to get our High School wrestlers to more national tournaments....Team Palmetto will extend a stipend to HS wrestlers that make Team Palmetto, particpate in all TP events(Palmetto Duals, Ohio Tournament of Champions, and Disney Duals) and practices. This money is to be used for wrestlers who qualify and attend Fargo. The exact figure, of course, will depend on total numbers and budget......but it was discussed a wrestler could get ~ $500 as an incentive to attend Fargo.

We look forward to SCUSA joinung us and showing our committment to SC wrestlers and getting our wrestlers the exposure on the national scene.

Team Palmetto also discussed getting Nominations from the SC Coaches Association for Team Palmetto coaches.

I think that is great.

I would love to see more kids at the national events. This year there are only 6 High school kids (guys) total going to Fargo. Factors keeping kids from going include: injuries, seniors having to start college and training in the summer (Geiges and Mestrez this year), and $$$. The first two can't be helped, but the money problem can.

I hope in the spring, the freestyle and greco tournaments will get more participation. I know for us driving from Charleston 3.5-4 hours for limited competition is not worth it. We went to FL and NC instead. Even the Greenwood Ironman was down this year. I would like to see that event prosper again. They have always been gracious hosts. For our club, we don't really care what organization umbrella's the event. We just want the best event.

Any plans to coordinate with SCUSA on making solid freestyle/greco events together? Or just offer alternative events? Based on what I saw at the Ironman, the biggest issue that the NUWAY folks had was knowledge of freestyle/greco and ref's that know the CURRENT rules. No fault of the volunteers there. They were very affable and tried their best. I think SCUSA needs some more ref's as well.

......"Any plans to coordinate with SCUSA on making solid freestyle/greco events together?"

lol.....Is this your joke question of the day, Lex? Team Palmetto(SCAAU) tried coordinating with them for years. We tried it 10 years ago......5 years ago.... a year ago...heck even as 5 months ago. You know SCUSA almost as well as I do. You know the ones making the decisions(bad one's at that) 10 years ago are the same ones making the same ol bad decisions today. Although many have come and gone to make it better....to coordinate. The same .......what did you call them lex???? "ol regime"....."ol guys"...?? I can't remember what you called them. They will not let it happen. And make NO MISTAKE!!!! Team Palmetto(SCAAU) has extended the Olive Branch......many...many times. Just to get slapped in the face with it.

Nonetheless, Team Palmetto has decided, .....once again to do what is best for SC wrestlers.

Just to note. This year's financial report was something like......After paying Nuway for insurance ......we had about $32,000 in account. $2,000 went to website maintenance, $6,000 for carryover. After that ALL .....every penny.....went to SC wrestlers, coaches, and teams. So SC wrestlers received around $24,000! What a great investment.

Old regime was what I said.

Beyond a couple of years, I do not have any firsthand knowledge of who did what. That being said, what you say falls in line with some of the SCUSA people that I do know to be good people that do want to work with NUWAY and Team Palmetto. So before you get all crazy and excited, I agree with you.

My club went to the Greenwood Ironman. Hell, even Donlick went there to help out (he aided the refs a good bit) and support that event despite the SCUSA tournament organizer (not Cumbee or Donlick) all of a sudden coming up with a competing event up the road on the same day. We (Pitbull Wrestling), and I know Cumbee, and Donlick were put off by that big time. That tournament was way down this year. As always though, they do a great job of hosting and doing what they can to get everyone the most matches. Their issue was ref's and knowing what the actual rules were. I know Cumbee wanted to send refs there to help that event, but could not get the other refs besides Donlick to agree. Basically, from our end (Pitbull and Donlick) we agreed that there needs to be an influx of new refs for freestyle/greco in the state. Our club will provide AT LEAST one next year to help take some of the duties.

My question about coordination was in hopes of getting more of these kids to freestyle/greco events before freestyle/greco state and SE Regionals. At the Palmetto Ironman there were good wrestlers, but it was obvious that they did not know how to wrestle those styles. It was more obvious that a lot of that came from coaches and refs not know the style either.

So no, I was not joking. I don't care who does what tournament. I just want good, quality freestyle/greco events for my club to compete in. I would like the current rules to be kept up with and implemented properly. It would be nice to get a solid turn out. Preferrably closer to Charleston.... The better kids in my club get little competition in the state so we go to North Carolina and Florida when we can. I would liek the other clubs like Country Kids and such to have more opportunities and exposure to freestyle/greco. Our state has a lot of potential, we just have to get kids to try these styles. I applaud you guys for starting to include freestyle and greco and putting Fargo on the event list.

If kids are aspiring to compete at a good Division I college in wrestling andreally want to get noticed on a national level, go to regional and national events for Freestyle/greco as well as the flkstyle stuff. I know it is easy to lean towards folkstyle because of the natural comfort level. The truth is though that after NCAA's in the spring, most guys wrestling at the top colleges are usually competing competing in freestyle or greco and working for the FILA Juniors or University Nationals as well as the senior national team. As such the coaches from these schools are at these events. It makes sense that if you want to get noticed by those schools to go to those events. Flow usually has great coverage of the freestyle/greco events. Check out the Junior Duals there.

Anyways, I think it is great that Team Palmetto is acknowledging Fargo now. Hopefully it will help produce a beter turnout at freestyle/greco events in state. Driving 4 hours every weekend sucks.

you are both way off on the correct road to fix these problems. The only cure all fix is to eliminate high school football and baseball to free up the entire 1st and 2nd semesters to focus on wrestling. It works for Jesuit in Lousiana.

whoa...lso....now you will get scalped in SC speaking those kind of words.

Actually, Lex...we have recognized Fargo for a while. You would probably be surprised to know we have given wrestlers way more money that SCUSA has.


You make some valid points. But we just can't find our way to invest more money into the Freestyle/Greco season when we just can't get alot of interest right. But we did want to put an incentive out there for natioanl exposure. And plus, I know you have reading the national post. National Teams, States, College recruiters are starting to put more focus on National duals. Mostly folkstyle but yes FS/GR duals. Economically, it makes sense. Go to Fargo....go 0-2 or go to Disney Duals and get garauteed 10 -15 matches....since it duals. If you haven't read it......find the article...Fargo isn't what it once was.

We also want to focus interest on Folkstyle....grass roots wrestling system FIRST.

I always chuckle when I hear someone say.....look at Pennsylvania. They good cause they wrestle Frestyle/Greco. When in fact, PA is good because they have probably the best youth folkstyle grass roots systems in the country. The kids get good there 1st. MOST...again MOST...if not all great PA Freestyle kids are good at Freestyle becasue they are good because they come up through that great folkstyle...youth ....grass roots system. Same as OH, NJ, IA, etc. Now, don't get me wrong FS/GR does and will get you better.....if nothing else it is fun as hell.....always was for me.

So we want to focus on a good youth...folkstyle...SYSTEM then follow up by getting our best wrestlers....or as many that wants...to compete FS/GR.

I mean look at the last couple of SC Junior Fargo All American....JC ODDO.....WIGGER? Strong SCAAU Folkstyle youth background. JC in particular did national folkstyle tournament heavy in SCAAU.....then went to Fargo.....and as he said "Just another National tournament". He was prepared!

Again, as far as coordination....Always tried....would love SCUSA to actually even try.....but as in 10, 8, 5, 2, etc years ago......your words "old regime" takes the ol olive branch and slaps everyone in the face with it.

I think LSO is on the money.

I agree with a lot of what you say MKS.

You're right, I am surprised to hear that you guys gave money in support of Fargo. Never heard that. As for SCUSA. I did not know that they gave money other than what was left over last year. I know what little was left from paying for all of the issues of PREVIOUS regimes and expenses was split amongst the Fargo kids. That was a Cumbee thing.

For every article that claims Fargo is not what it once was, you will probably find plenty that back it as the beast that ti is. An article is an opinion. Depending on who writes it and what their prefences are, any one of us can find something to support our beliefs.

I was not trying to suggest a Disney Duals vs. Fargo choice. I think the Disney Duals are great. Unfortunately they are the same weekend as Junior Duals for freestyle/greco so I don't see our state realistically sending competitive teams to both. We just don't have the kids other states do.
Most of the kids in this state focus on folkstyle because it is what they are familiar with as well as their coaches. Quite frankly, Freestyle and greco just don't get the numbers here like they do in other states.

As for claiming AAU Folkstyle as what made a lot of the kids good, sure it did. I know that Wigger also wrestled freestyle and greco growing up. When I first got to SC in 2001 he was wrestling Free/greco. Jerry has done a great job getting Jordan to big events throughout the years and bringing him along at a good pace. I don't know much about Oddo. I would say both are folk and free are beneficial. Keep in mind that a lot of kids don't even learn about wrestling until they are in high school. If that's the case Freestyle and greco can really help speed up the process.

When I talk to friends out of the state that are still active in coaching and competing about High School wrestling (not kids or middle school) and recruiting, there is one thing they are all in line with. That is how kids do nationally in individual competitions. They all mention Fargo. Some will also mention NHSCA Junior national's (not Freshmen, Soph) and to a much lesser degree Senior Nationals (because most of the best seniors are already signed and don't compete in that event). Several were excited about the concept of FloNationals and hope it catches on. the other thing they all mentioned was the success a kid has relative to the time he has actually been wrestling. A kid who started in middle school or earlier should have an edge on a freshmen that never wrestled. what a lot of programs look at is potential though. Has a kid already peaked? Is he good now with the potential to be great put in the right situation? They ALL say that it is hard to get much better than the competition you face. So if an SC kid is content beating other SC kids, that is probably as far as he'll go. If an SC kid gets out there and regularly competes against national competition and rises to it, he can get there.

I think the dual tournaments are good for number of matches except in a case where you have a team that pretty much loses and goes to a lesser bracket. Then unfortunately, our good guys might not get to match up with the solid guys from other states.

Any and all opportunities to wrestle out of state are good. I think it's great that more kids are starting to leave their comfort zone and get involved in wrestling out of state.

Keep up the good work.

Lex....my friend.....you made valid points. I have to agree with that post.

I personally would like to see Team Palmetto kick back some additional funds to teams that coaches actively participate and volunteer with Team Palmetto. In a budget crisis like most schools are in, a wrestling coach now must devote the offseason to raise money. Too many teams with great coaches are strugging to get the money to pay for tournament entry fees or wrestling shoes for their kids! Look at S Pirkle in Ware Shoals and what they have done for youth wrestling...lets reward his hard work with a small grant to help get Ware Shoals on their feet. This might foster and increased involvement with head coaches throughout the state rather than over-zealous dads and older-brothers trying to relive glory through their younger kids/siblings.

$1000 to a team to pay for entry fees to 5-7 tournaments benefits up to 14 kids, where $1000 to a kid only benefits...well, one kid. I know its kind of a socialist way of looking at things but I think the quickest way to improve SC wrestling is to up the amount of competitive teams in the state....more matches....more competition.

hmmmm pretty good idea!

maybe both???? This way it would encourage more invlovlement from HS coaches. We choose from HS coaches Nominations. I will bring this up at next board meeting. I also want to bring up making donations to the colleges as well.

But I remember one older brother that coached Team Palmetto holds the title of Ohio TofC Champions!!!!!!! Not bad for an older brother!!


Is CField and BE/Hanahan/LEX L coming to Southern Slam again this year?

Southern Slam:
BE was registered, but I have not been keeping up with what they are doing. They are going to be very inexperienced and frankly would probably be better served going to a lesser event.

Hanahan should go. I don't know if Coach Adkins got them in yet or not, but I have suggested it numerous times. They will be solid and had a lot more kids wrestling in the spring. I would like to see JJ Johnson, Jeff Brule, Cody Hancock, Francis Boykin, etc test their mud there early in the season.
I love that event. Oak Mountain (AL), Bradley Central (TN), and many other great teams.

Don't know about Chesterfield. I don't think they were fond of how crowded it was there last year.

LSO 's idea has some merit. That being said, Just giving money to SCHSL teams for SCHSL events really does not help the individuals that have busted their butts to get better and may be at a crap program the chances that organizations like NUWAY or Team Palmetto try to provide. So I would say absolutely NO to the school idea. Maybe Club teams though.

Personally I would prefer that the kids who put in the time and are dedicated to going to the sanctioned or sponsored events and qualify for big events be rewarded. If money just goes to high schools teams, then no one really excels. I thought the point was to help get kids better and get them motivated to go after national competition??? We all know the best competition is in the spring and summer. Well, most of us do.

For the kids to excel, they need national exposure. Not sticking with SC. If someones goal is to be an SC state champion, that is great. But that is not what I thought Team Palmetto's goals were. I always understood it as an organization meant to provide SC kids the opportunity to compete nationally and help them shine at the next level.

LSO, I think you do a lot for the sport and I'm glad you won American Idol the season before last, but......
I finally saw where Team Palmetto is stepping up and committing to helping get SC kids to Fargo. DON'T SCREW WITH THAT DAGNABBIT!!!

wait wait wait...I love the idea of awarding kids and helping them go to Fargo. With 32K to kick back though, why not give 5 deserving HS coaches who busted their butts an extra $1000 to support their programs...not the SCHSL...not the school, but the Team Palmetto have the coaches submit a list of needs (tournaments, singlets, etc.) and if the coach is serious and deserving of some help then so it be.

Lex think about it this way. Team Palmetto gives 5K to five random schools that are trying to start solid programs but cannot travel to get such competition...lets say Ware Shoals, Chesnee, Goose Creek, Berea, and Lewisville. Now the extra money gets 14 kids to 4 extra quality tourneys during the season. Those kids pick up 20 extra matches and influence 5 kids from each of those teams to pursue offseason wrestling....now we have 25 more kids register for TP and SCUSAW.

True...sending kids to national tournaments is the way to get a select few to compete at the national level, but ultimately, we want the state to compete at a national level...and we have got to get the numbers up at our freestyle and greco tournaments. If we can double the amount of competition at each SCUSAW event then you wouldn't have to drive to Florida or NC every weekend to wrestle someone new. Lets face it...you go to SCUSAW events week after week and chances are you wrestle the same people over and over.

I think it is an idea worth exploring and possible fine tuning, but the numbers have got to rise. When some kid from Landrum is 12-3 and an qualifies for state its a huge deal....give him the chance to get 35 matches under conditions that coaches enter X amount of wrestlers in offseason matches.

by the way....have you ever heard me sing? Its horrible!

Wouldn't it be nice where Team Palmetto could pay for a full time Coach for our National teams.......Oh and busses to travel on. WOW!! Did anyone see the charter bus that Michigan came down to the Palmetto Duals in???? WOW!!!

OK, I will wake up now. lol But we are getting better at lowering the cost kids have to pay out. Paying for registration, singlets, hotels, travel, etc for ES, MS, and HS kids eats into that ~$30 K pretty fast.


S A R C A S M A L E R T!

OH, wait! Whats up with hijacking my thread LEX and LSO! I start talking about TP Board meeting and you guys talk SCUSA??????!!!! hmmmmmph!!!!!

seriously....I love the ideas...keep em coming. That's how we get better! The discussion is great! And are being heard!


Here are thoughts I have:

A coach volunteers to coach TP...helps out....gets a wrestling team donation(HS or Club)

Colleges get a $1,000 wrestling donation if they send a team to the Palmetto Duals


Whatcha think?

LSO,
Saw you lip sync and dance at the state tournament when Stanley was a senior, Dalton a junior, and Geiges an 87 lb freshmen. Even Outley stopped with mouth open to watch....

MKS~
What happened to the Palmetto Duals this past year? This may be too big of a concept yet in our state, but what if it or another event was made into a dual event for freestyle for high school? I could almost guarantee you would get some NC and FL groups up. We would have gone to that event had the high school wrestling be freestyle or greco. I took 10 kids to the Marine Corps Ironman in Florida that weekend instead. The Free/greco matches go fast with the current rules.
I think it can accomplish several things:
-It seems like a lot of the traditional AAU/NUWAY people prefer the team type events. This could be a good way to get them to practice and try freestyle/greco and give them the comfort level of a team.
-It can bring in a lot of people from SC and beyond. Seeing other competition is good.
-Could be a large event for the kids to get prepped for SE Regionals and eventually Fargo.
-of course it could bring in $$$

Depending on the venue, I could see a high school duals for at least freestyle. If it could not be done for greco, hold an individual greco tournament later in the day since there are always kids afraid to try greco. Have an individual tournament for the kids. Either have a dual tournament for the open guys or make in indi's.. Maybe Newberry, Limestone, SMC, Belmont Abbey, etc may field a team and actual wresle freestyle/greco instead of just claiming to. The open may be difficult to do tournament wise, but individuals is fine. As long as it does not fall on the same weekend as FILA Jrs, the US Open, or University Nationals then there is no excuse for the open guys not to compete. It may draw guys from neighboring states. Hell, I know if Geiges isn't out of town for something else, he would go. same with Mestrez.

The issues I would see would be:
1-the venue.
2-refs. Legitimate ones that know the current rules. Not some guy eating a sandwich and talking to some fat chick.

I think if it is made into a 2- day festival, it could really be an event. Have the freestyle/greco stuff on a saturday and then have folkstyle on Sunday so that people won't feel slighted. Have a true freestyle/ greco clinic Saturday. Plamen Paskalev is great. The more our state can utilize him, the better. By that time I may be able to get some Oklahoma stars down for a vacation or something... That could also put our state on the map as far as bringing in teams from elsewhere to us for a change.

I personally want more than 5-6 kids going to Fargo every year. That just sucks. Anything to increase the interest and provide opportunities is great.

Whew....that was alot info lex.... again good ideas.


As far as Palmetto Duals. The HS and MS division was great! In the HS division we had 2 teams from Michigan. 2 teams from NC......one of the NC teams won the Militia Duals. Then ???? 8 SC teams. TP, 1A/2A, 3A, 4A, Swansea, House....

Michigan loved it and has already signed up for next year. NC has made it tow years in a row and say they will come next year as well. It was totally free for all SC wrestlers.

I understand your points LSO. You have always tried to encourage and help the kids and teams with less opportunity. It's commendable. My issue would be that if money were to go to struggling teams, that they be clubs where the coaches have shown an effort to get kids off season help. Not just a stipend handed out to the worst teams. Like it or not, a lot of times the worst teams are that way because of effort, not opportunity. I'm sure you mentioned Goose Creek randomly, but they would be an example of a team that competes in season and has no aspirations of finding tougher competition. They are a 4a school that schedules a lot of easy 1a/2a schools to beef up records. Not exactly who I would look to help out.

I still think that, though commendable, is less helpful than helping kids that really do put in the effort to pursue national goals.

I know our kids in Pit Bull go out and try to get sponsors to help the club pay for everything from travel, to gear, etc. They get their parents to volunteer and it is a nice change from what I have dealt with during the school year at BE. Though this generally covers our spring schedule and some summer stuff, the big ones are too expensive for most. I'm a firm believer if kids work for something it means more when they attain it.

I think what Team Palmetto is trying to do is provide opportunities for the kids that commit to getting better themselves. Cumbee is trying to do that with SCUSA as well. He is just having a hard time making up ground from bad and stupid things that other people did before him. Either separately or together, both organizations are there to provide opportunities for our states go getter's to get after it nationally.

G Creek was probably a bad example. I agree, the money could be spread out to those teams with coaches actively participating and encouraging the kids to participate (as stated in previous post). With a 32K surplus I think there is enough money to do both. I would love to see SC eventually field a full team to bus to Fargo like NC does....but they only way that will happen is if we boost numbers. With that big of a surplus they could get crazy (if SCUSA would merge) and offer free admission to numbres of tournaments for all state placers for a year or two. I would like to see the breakdown between state placers and non-state placers at SCUSAW tournaments.

What is SCUSAW doing to boost numbers? Please do not say invest in officiating.

Another great idea Team Palmetto could do is sponsor and host an in-season SCHSL tournament...i have some great ideas that could promote Team Palmetto.

Without investing all monies in referees.....our kids will never get better!


Just to be clear there was not a surplus of 32K. Bill spent all but 6K(for carryover). 25K Plus was spent on sending ES, MS, and HS kids to National tournaments striving to cause little or no expense.

Oh and Lex. Our(Team Palmetto) main goal....is to give SC wrestlers opportunity. We want to do this by establishing a Solid, Sound, Competitive, Cost effective Youth Folkstyle System. To give kids an opportunity in SC. That is going well! Our tournament schedule is loaded with competitive....well run(by clubs) tournaments. In fact, along with the intent of this thread.....we are even going to try multiple tournaments on the same weekend this year.

Secondly, we want to encourage and help SC wrestlers get to National tournaments.


Just a little history Lex.
Years ago when the Harpers, Coles, Leach, Ollis, Sanders, Wigger were knee high their parents were traveling to Virginia, Georgia, NC, OH, PA, NV, etc to get their kids competitive folkstyle matches....during wrestling season. We all used to say...WOW, wouldn't it be great to have Folkstyle tournaments in SC?

So Bruce Ollis went to SCUSA.....coming from NC he was used to a Folkstyle schedule...during wrestling season. SCUSA responded.....we don't do Folkstyle...thats not REAL wrestling anyway....AND NOT DURING WRESTLING SEASON!!!!!!!! Bruce said ok well just sanction me to run a folkstyle tournament.... SCUSA turned him down. So Bruce teamed up with AAU....creating...or revitalizing SCAAU. With the same goals I mentioned above. I think the first year....around 97/98 ish there were like 2 or 3 tournaments. The next year 4/5......the next 8......etc.... Now we are over 20....Duals and Indy State Championships.....and approaching 3,000 members and close to 50 clubs.

So today the intent is the same....we wanted to work with SCUSA...let them handle FS/GR. We just wanted our kids wrestling in season Folkstyle tournament.....just like many of the other great wrestling states. WE WANTED A GOOD, YOUTH, FOLKSTYLE SYSTEM!!!!!

Additionally, I compare SC(on a national scene) to a 1A school. We have athletes!!!! But we have to share them. Most kids....ES(when other states are starting their wrestlers at) are going to play FB, play Baseball, Basketball. That's what SCUSA never understood.....their competition was never SCAAU......it was football, Baseball, baketball, etc. Without an in season....folkstyle season....we would never get better.

And again so we are clear......I am not debating FS/GR does not make you better. In fact, those that know me....know I encourage it. But without a solid in season....folkstyle SYSTEM....you are just playing catchup.

Some of biggest pleasure over the years......was seeing the Harpers, Oddos, Coles, Leach, Wigger, compete in the national tournaments...and WIN there...win on the national scene. Then come into HS as a 9th grader. Hear the people say....well he was a good MS kid but he will never compete with the "GOOD SC KIDS" . Then see those kids....that have been wrestling on the National level for years.......blow the doors off of the "Good SC kids"

Anyway...just little info.

I agree with what you are saying and it only makes sense to make folkstyle events available for all ages during folkstyle season.
I have heard the deal with the "Leave the real wrestling to us" quote. Uncalled for and that individual essentially drove a huge wedge. Now the current leader (Cumbee) is trying to recover from that to bridge the gap. He and Donlick (Believe it or not) have been seriously trying to bring the two organizations together. I know their elections are this year. I hope open minded people with a clear conscience are elected to various positions and SCUSA can join with Team Palmetto.
They need to leave the youth and folkstyle events to other people and legitimately work with them to promote freestyle. I would say though (whether it is the case or not) that the perception here in the lower state is that Team Palmetto is more or less just concerned with the upperstate teams. Hence you get the Lowerstate sending their own squad to Disney Duals as kind of an "Oh Yeah." I think the reality is more that a lot of the people who volunteered for Team Palmetto live in the upperstate and it is natural that the tournaments, try outs, and practices for their team are up there as most of their numbers come from there.

As LSO said, SCUSA and Team Palmetto could really do a lot of good together. Offering incnetives to get state placers to freestyle is good. I would say at the events I have been to you have a mix of some studds and then completely new inexperienced guys. I could not tell you the statstics statewide for the percentage of state placers that do freestyle. I was told the percentages nationwide for high school and NCAA Div I qualifiers, AA's, Champs, etc. Before and it was staggering. I want to say somewhere in the high 80's percentage wise for most. Well, if you watch NCAA's, most guys interviewed after they win are not planning on going to Disneyland. Most say they are preparing for US Nationals and to make the world team.
One thing Cumbee wants to do once the numbers come up is offer an incentive program like we had in Cali when I was in freestyle and greco. They kept tab of numbers of wins, medals, matches, points, or some type of system. whoever scored the most per weight got stipends for wrestling camps. My sophmore year I had three camps paid for! The issue here is the current numbers just do not justify that. This year the belts that they gave at state went over really well. That was Cumbee's idea. I believe he personally covered the cost for those.

MK as for money going to ref's. It doesn't now. I don't know what was done in the past, but I heard about paying for certain refs to go hang out at the olympics. Not anymore. That may be why SCUSA's refs are few and far between. I proposed that each club try to get one volunteer to become a ref. That would go miles in eliminating the dependency of certain refs. Quite frankly, of the five current freestyle ref's that I know of, Three are getting long in the tooth. When we went to NC this year for an event, they had a ref, a judge, and a mat chairman at each table. That is how it is supposed to be.

Lex SCUSA has a hard time convincing any one things have REALLY changed. As when Jerry Wigger was Treasurer of SCUSA....he was not even given the State Check Book. That was to be hidden. As now .....same people made decisions then.....still making final decisions now. SCUSA would be well helped if they made all their financial information public(as they are suppose to do) then you would really see where the money went thru the year. It would really disgust you.

And until new....credible...trustworthy...honest...people take charge..... the Perception will always be the same. So easy to see. Just not sure why something hasn't been done about it.

Mike,
Cumbee was not there when all that happened. He in fact did give out copies of all money brought in and expenses that went out at state to everyone there. He has been nothing but open about everything. I am not ever going to dispute things SCUSA had done in the past. I was not even coaching a club team back then.

I'm sure you could give Steve Cumbee a call or Jerry Wigger about the finances. You seem to like Jerry. He made a quality dead on post over on SCVarsity.com last week on a thread similar to this about travels teams, SCUSA, Fargo, etc.

Cumbee may have not been...you may not have been......but the.....as you say OL REGIME....was still are there and still making the same ol bad decision.

Your missing the point, Lex. For coaches across the state.....they still remember all that. And they look at it now and see same people making the final decisions. Just saying untill that changes....perception across the state will be the same. I think you even admit, although Cumbee maybe trying to right the ship, the same ol regime is still making the final decisions. The perception.....majority anyways....think it is still the same. That perception will not change until the ol regime changes.


And btw, asked Donlick numerous times...for copy of bi laws(so did Jerry), back when Jerry and I was voted in as a SCUSA officer, and never was produced. Just figured the same would be for past financial records.

I understand what you're saying. Believe me, when I feel wronged or slighted I have a difficult EVER believing that person again.

Where "those" people are, are refereeing, and dealing with the tournaments. The state needs more ref volunteers badly. Part of the issue was the prcess for scheduling the tournaments and too much control or responsibility being given to the SCUSA officials as opposed to host schools. I know when we hosted an event at Hanahan (horrible weekend w/ the bridge run and FR-So-Jr-Sr nationals), we made sure that we had people there to sign kids up, weigh them in, do pairing, run the tables at all of the mats non stop, run the clinic, and keep the flow going. Most other schools did not. Some (including the state event at Dutch Fork) did not even have sufficient table workers. SCUSA just does not have the people to do everything. The ref's should have to do little more than ref and validate weigh ins. Personally, I think the host school/club should be competent to do the other stuff or they have no business holding a tournament.

Donlick is supportive of NUWAY. Hell, he went to the Greenwood Ironman and volunteered to help with the refs despite SCUSA randomly holding a tournament the same weekend. He was at odds with the other refs and was very vocal about wanting to work with NUWAY or Team Palmetto to help with the freestyle/greco. Cumbee is the same. All I'm saying is that some good people are trying to improve things. They need support and help. Trying to change opinions on how to do things internally is hard enough without always being shot at from other people on the outside looking in.

They need more ref's. They also need some cooperation from people. Not saying that it was not offered in the past, but if it is to keep moving forward then the people trying to make things better need support.

If Nuway and SCUSA could work together jointly on some of the mixer events (Palemtto Ironman and get a freestyle/greco portion added to the Palmetto Duals), then there could be some great events in state and the freestyle/greco base could grow. Would there ever be a possibility of doing that? Lord knows if NUWAY wants to hold freestyle/greco events in state they need to know what the rules are and help ref'ing instead of walking around with printouts of rule modifications and asking if anyone knows which end is up. I don't know if either organization is set up that way or not or how that would work.

I know for SCUSA, any profit (and you can get those expense satements from Steve Cumbee) at the end of the year would be given to be used for the Fargo kids. At least it was last year and this.

Just a reminder Lex.......Look at Team Palmetto business model.... We do not run any Frestyle/Greco events. We only "RUN" two Folkstyle events....... State Championship and Palmetto Duals. We sanction events. Not run them. We leave the running of events up to host schools. That why host schools keep the majority of the money.


SO.... your statement of "Lord knows if NUWAY wants to hold freestyle/greco events in state they need to know what the rules are and help ref'ing instead of walking around with printouts of rule modifications and asking if anyone knows which end is up." does not fit our business model.

NUWAY/Team Palmetto does not supply any refs....folkstyle nor freestyle. We are a parent organization. Not one that runs tournaments. Do we need to?.....should we? will we? I don't know.....currently it's just not the way our model isstructured.

Most teams across the state would rather keep the money they earn running their own tournament than paying a parent organization to ......supposedly run it for them......cause 9 times out 10.....what happened at your tournament happens......your wind up staffing it yourself..... Been there...done that myself.

I probably worded things poorly.
I like the way the business model is for what Team Palmetto does. My point was to be that I think the teams should run the tournaments as you were discussing. We do need the ref's though for Freestyle/greco. The rules change almost yearly and ref'ing needs to be consistent event to event. Nothing worse than going to SE Regionals and having matches ref'ed A LOT different than what we saw in state. It happened two years ago. Since then I have kept up to date and been more vocal as opposed to just taking their words for it.

Oh well. Enough pissing in the wind. I think Team Palmetto has a great concept. I would like SCUSA to follow suit.

nah man good conversation! Good ideas!

Good Luck on the remainder of your club's season and maybe I'll see ya at the Southern Slam. I am pretty sure Morrissey will be there.

you guys heads are about to explode. Their some good FS?GR kids with good coaches in this State. Zack Clary and Trevor Mansfield both swepted their kid divisions Soutrheast regional Championships. As well they are SC state SCYWA champions and AAU All-Americans. Because they train year round with their Dad/Coaches. And both of their dads coach club teams. trevor's dad is the club coach @ Ware shoals. His teams success speak for themsleves with multiple All=Americans and State champions. So don't say are kids in this state do not want to wrestle all three styles FK/FS/GR. Because more kids would if USA and Nuway would pull their heads out of their you Know what.